New Toolbar for everyone from Feb 2010
By Joe on Wednesday, November 25 2009, 09:10 - SiteMaker features - Permalink
Following the successful roll out of the New Toolbar for all new customers late in October, and the positive feedback from customers using it, we are now planning to phase out the old 'basic' and 'advanced' Toolbars from 1st Feb 2010.
We wanted to give you long enough to play with the New Toolbar (if you haven't already) as well as provide further feedback to us about what could make it better for you before this switch-over date. We have already received valuable feedback during the beta phase from you that helped us shape changes for the current release. We want to make sure we give further opportunity before the final version becomes the only version.
New Moonfruit Toolbar
So why are we doing this? Read on, read on...
Why we're doing it
The major drive for developing the New Toolbar was to better organise the features available and create the structure so that we can expand services further in the future. Moonfruit has grown to include so many features over the years, sometimes the most important ones get lost, so this was an opportunity to re-present them for how they are, or can be, used today.
The New Toolbar will see the introduction of new blogging tools and the long awaited e-commerce upgrade, both of which we are aiming to deliver in the first half of next year.
The Old Toolbars (both basic and advanced versions) do not have the space or capabilities for us to integrate these new features as they are based on older version of Flash. To support both versions (Old and New) also creates overheads in the code that makes it difficult to add new features without breaking the old, and require editors to download parts of the old infrastructure that they will not use.
So for these reasons we have decided to phase out the Old Toolbars and create a single expandable New Toolbar that can cope with new additions for years to come. This has not been an easy decision, and we hope you understand that this creates a better platform for delivering new features in the future.
If you have comments or feedback on the New Toolbar, please let us know on this blog or via a support ticket.
New Toolbar highlights
You can get to the new Toolbar in the same way, e.g. 'View' --> 'New Toolbar', or if you're already using it you'll get the updates automatically.
The advantages of the new Toolbar are:
- Use the full screen browser for editing - you can move edit tools outside the boundary of your site
- Zoom in/out while editing - you make your site bigger/smaller to help you 'see' it in full glory
- Sticky edit tools - the Toolbar remains at the top and the Editor will remain on screen as you scroll up and down
- Show off-screen objects - if you drag something off your site (outside the boundary), you can choose to hide or display off screen objects while in Edit mode (new under 'view')
- Detailed insert menu - more objects can be added in one click, including some new HTML snippets ('Insert' menu)
- Quick pages menu - includes quicker ways to add pages, copy pages and change page length, plus edit meta data (for search engines) more quickly (see 'Pages' menu)
- Links to other services - Google Analytics, Webmaster Tools, AdSense can all be viewed without leaving your site (new 'Services' menu)
- Copy site/transfer site feature - allows you to create copies of your site as the basis for a new site (not for backup)
- HTML widget - add any HTML snippet to your site using our HTML widget snippet (e.g. Google Gadgets, all Widgetbox widgets, all Amazon widgets and more).
Here's the original beta release article if you missed it.
Let us know if you have any thoughts or comments. We're still making some improvements to the New Toolbar before 1st Feb 2010, so let us know if there's something that really doesn't work for you.
Comments
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO seriosuly i can not work with the new toolbar, sure it looks nice and all that but its so not for me. Id like it if you could hide the side bar where it says copy paste blah blah, but i just hate having to scroll around my website when addin new stuff advanced view is so easy to use for me.
Sean - you need to work with it honestly I hated it initially when I first looked around but now it have moved all my sites to the new toolbar.
Yes it's different but in time you will get used to it.
For The New Toolbar You Should Have The Insert Text Buttons Title Or Normal Like The Advanced Toolbar
Not loving the new toolbar/layout!!! Maybe phase out the basic but keep the advance as an alternative?
Just started building a new site, first one in a while (due to work) and I'm not loving it at all.
My reason: First, I dont like it being off centre and the top border is a lot more thicker meaning i can't see as much of my site when editing. So have to keep refering back to 'view my site' to see the results as i got used to the other one i could judge it.
It seems cheaper and not as elegant as the advance toolbar with big image icons instead of the clean text drop down menus.
I'm not sure, it's just really off putting and I'm not having as much fun designing my site.
I agree with Sean... NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!
Excellent!!
Nothing like announcing a change to solicit useful feedback. Thanks for the comments so far.
Our job is to make the new toolbar something you love and we can only fine tune it with your help, so thank you for this feedback.
What I'm hearing is that you would like to be able to reduce the size of the top and sidebars to maximise the viewable area on screen.
Can I ask what size of screen you are using? Are you using laptops or desktops?
Thanks all,
Joe
I use a 15" dell studio laptop and a 20" dell studio desktop, it dont seem to make a diffrence what size screen you use.
The top off the toolbar i can work with its just the side toolbar i really cant get on with, its not that i dnt like it its just you have to waste so much time moving around your website not really seeing what your doing because the viewable area is stuck in corner of your screen half the size of your actual screen size.
I do agree with Robert i do not have as much fun designing sites with the new toolbar.
Im sure you will pull it off making me love the new toolbar but at the moment its pushing all the wrong buttons for me.
Thanks Sean, i'll pass on the feedback. The idea behind the sidebar is that for certain functions you might want it on screen at all times to be able to browse through the site and add objects or adjust data in the sidebar that will update itself. For example the pages menu in the sidebar has the meta data available. Thanks,
Joe
Yeah i understand the side bar is good im not sayin its not just be good if you could hide it or something along them lines.
Thanks
I find that the best way to edit, making maximum available desktop space available is to set the page to full screen ie hide the browser
Come on guys, any more comments or pieces of feedback?
We're going to look at options for minimising the top and sidebars so you can get more screen real estate.
Anything else you're dying to tell us before we cruelly force the New Toolbar upon you for evermore ;-)
Joe
I agree that you should be able to hide the side bar because it uses up to much screen space. I prefer to see more of my site and although you can enlarge the said page, hiding the side bar would be a great choice.
To be honest I didn't like it at first. I just designed a new site, and struggled to find my way around. But I've just applied the new toolbar to my old site because we all need to get use to change.
I think it does make designing easier. I found switching between page master and site pages really easy, and adjusting site settings etc.
It also looks really good.
But my only concern is how big it is, and hopefully that is already being looked at.
I noticed that I could not always access features on the left panel if there was a very long list of features. I didn't see any scroll function to get to those parts.
Is this wise as the new tool bar does not seem very compatable with the Google Chrome at the moment I have so many probs with it I still have to rely on firefox using Google Chrome which at times is annoying having 2/3 different web browers for all
The copy and pasting links or info in a site does not work very good copying a link into the links button does also not work
Also the date and time buttons do not change colours and if you do try to it actually disapears
also the @ symbul seems not to work only by pressing the number 2 " which is now the new @ lol
There is also other faults but I can not remember them until I am actually on the site..
I think it unfair to drop the other tool bars until all these problems are fixed I had to resort back to using advanced and basic for somethings please do not think everyone uses internet explorer or firefox all the time thanks Andy
I am buiding a site and I have more than 200 pages, When try to link a page it is diffucult for me to find the page that I am looking for. Can you expand the editor screen when I try to link a site so it would be easy for me to find a page. Or is there easy way to do that and ı did not know ?
One More thing , Please consider that a lot of people building web pages in their own language other that english. Therefore Please let us to modify text on some widgets like "add comment" text "google search" text etc. Pls Pls Pls make moon fruit international.. and have it in your development schedule. One more thing, will you guys make any multiple search or in site search other than google. So peaple can make advance search ?
Don't know where to put tech feedback, so I'm sticking it here. Using the new toolbar, when I try to change font colours or the fonts, the list of fonts or colours breaks up throught the actual Editor box. This makes it hard to select the colour you want or pick the font you need. I know this is only a little hitch but its getting annoying.
Thanks
I still prefer the advanced toolbar, also the new bar is still missing some shortcuts, one for example is moving object front and/or back.
Please can we keep the advanced toolbar???
I also think the advanced toolbar is quicker once you know your way around.
@ Ben - thanks for that, we've flagged it as a bug.
@ Paul - the object layering is in the 'edit' menu under the 'arrange' heading
@ Pd - we're making some changes to the new toolbar following some of this feedback. We did various click testing to check the number and speed of clicks required to perform certain actions, and found the new toolbar to be generally better. Which areas do you still find slower to use? If we have specifics we may be able to make changes. Thanks,
Joe
I liked that the old tool bars were branded with Sitemaker versus Moonfruit.
I build sites for my clients and it was nice to have almost a white label product to offer them.
@ Andy - thanks for your comments. The @ issue affects chrome and safari and is a bug in the browser that switches the keyboard to US when using a certain HTML setting.
As for the other bugs, re copy and paste and date/time, I can't reproduce them. Can you submit a support ticket for us with more detail of which widgets/features you are using and we'll try to figure out what's going on. Many thanks,
Joe
@Kr8ve1 that's why we have the reseller products which don't carry any moonfruit branding. They don't have any branding at all, not even SiteMaker. Thanks,
Joe
What a joke.. i hate the new toolbar, its for people that need everything done for them.. its rubbish.. not happy at all... keep the advanced toolbar!!!!!!!!! just ruined my friday night seeing this :(
my blood is boiling, why do you need to get rid of the advanced bar?? what happened to choice now adays??? p*ssed right off
ok so i fink ian has took the piss there its a great tool bar but ofcorse people like it or they dont. how about givin the moonfruit guys some feedback on how you would like the toolbar to be instead of being so disrespectfull to there hardwork
I am just not comfortable with the new tool bar I do not like the look or feel to it I have tried unsuccesful to use it and it is just to complicated I like the advanced tool bar as it was simple and straight forward I do not know why in this day we can not have choice this is not a critisim of moonfruit or the staff just some things people get use to and the old saying why change it if it is not broke comes to mind some people like to have things simple !
Ps if I have to use it then so be it but alas I just find it to difficult to work with at the moment and if I find it just to complicated after I have no choice than to use it then I may have to end my £15.99 subscription not because I want to but because the software is now beyond my safe knowledge of use which would be a great shame for both parties having been a loyal moonfruit member for over 8 years I really think you should have the option of using which 1 you feel comfortable with :--)
Having re read my message I want to clarify something I love moonfruit and will never leave I might have to cut down my subscription package but I will never leave my Moonfruit x
Hi Andy,
Thanks for the explanation. Can you give us more detail about what you find confusing or difficult about the new toolbar? The top options should be pretty much the same as on the advanced, with the side bar acting as the alternative to the drop down list.
We are adding the option to hide the sidebar by popular demand, so you can have it visible for adding multiple objects quickly or hide it when you just want to edit the site.
So if you have specific feedback we can see what we can do to implement it. Thanks,
Joe
Didn't like it at first but actually within a few hours I think it is easier to get to things.
I do have a bug/issue though. When I put my cursor onto the actual site (in edit mode) it flashes very quickly between the black cursor symbol and the glove cursor symbol. This happens when, as a Mac user, I am using Safari (4.0.4) but not when I use Firefox.
Its not affecting how I edit the site, its just annoying. And it just happens in edit mode.
Kekefan
Hey, This might be a silly question but with the new toolbar can you change 'page size' or just 'site size'???
I've gave it a shot... because i have too, and i know the reason behind the change, but i still prefer the Advance toolbar... I'm using a 20" Mac.
@ Robert - If you click on the 'Pages' icon on the toolbar and in the sidebar under the 'Page management' you should find the 'Page length'.
Yes that's right re page length, you can change it in the pages section.
@Robert, what do you prefer about the advanced toolbar? Given we're adding the option to hide the sidebar, what do you find difficult/arkward about the new toolbar? Thanks,
Joe
Hey, I like the page length feature... now I've found it thanks Kekefan/Joe. I like the page management sidebar, Would not have looked in it though as the symbol in the basic/advance toolbar never had these options.
Anyway, I think i will come to like it but i don't like the visible space for your site. However making the top bar smaller using all the white space to the right and enabling a hide feature on the side bar should resolve this. Not 'dissing' your work guys and i think we all know it's not change for change sake.
I also like the copy site / copy page options... keep them coming guys.
P.s. is it possible to alter individual page width instead of height. Trying a Horizontal scroll site http://www.rwdphotography.co.uk
The guys at moonfruit are great yes, and they have put a lot of work into sitemaker.. what do we like about the advanced feature? It's small, sits at the top out of the way and does not interfere with the layout at all, its easy to use, has all the main features needed accessable to you with one click.. why cant we keep the advanced bar? answer that one instead of asking us whats wrong with the new one..
Hi Joe
thanks for the reply I am glad you are going to hide the sidebar what a great idea
(We are adding the option to hide the sidebar by popular demand, so you can have it visible for adding multiple objects quickly or hide it when you just want to edit the site.)
I think a lot of the bugs I am having and experincing is to do with the google chrome browser and not the new tool bar so I am sorry I went on and on and on in my last mesages I will now start to use Firefox for Moonfruit
I am starting to use the new tool bar now and are warming to it if a little slow lol
I suppose like a newly dating person the next step wedding or then again divorce lol
I am just a old fashioned person when it comes to change I hate getting use to things then all change but I suppose that is progress in life !
Forever greatful forever loyal
Cheers Andy :-)
Ps I wish someone from staff would still help me with my help on the Commuinty Forums
Make Articles Open Up In New Page Bigger
On my website I have some A4 documents that have been made small on my website so they would fit on the website however there use to be a tool that Moonfruit had that if you click ed on the documents they could and would open up into a new web browser and can be made bigger so someone can read them... I have several of these documents already like this however I can no longer find this simple but clever tool to use and I have searched all over Moonfruit please does anyone know the name of even how to find it please thanks Andy
Hi Ian,
Thanks for your comments. We're working on changes to the New Toolbar that allows more space to be used (e.g. hide the sidebar and top icons). We had originally used more space for the interface as monitors and screen resolution are getting larger, so we thought there would be space available. However, as many have asked for us to give them options to reduce the size of the interface we are building these.
In terms of why you just can't keep the old advanced toolbar, we explained this in the original blog post. It has pretty much run out of usable space for new features, and is built using a much older version of Flash. By upgrading the whole edit environment we can create an expandable infrastructure for the future into which we can continue to add features.
We're not just trying to implement change for changes sake, so I hope that makes it a bit clearer. Thanks,
Joe
Joe do you think that my Safari problem can be solved? Or am I going to have to use Firefox?
Hi Kekefan,
It's a bug with Safari itself caused by shifting the focus between the Flash and HTML objects, causing the curser to be a bit disco. We have logged the bug with them, so they should fix it, but it may be a while. It won't affect your site in any other way, but I can understand it's a bit annoying (I use Safari myself).
I hope that helps,
Joe
Thanks Joe, appreciate the info.
hi joe- i need help here. i tried to use the new toolbar and when i did it, it got stuck. my whole editing page is not downloading completely. not a single button is visible. i already refreshed it a couple of times but its not working. i logout and log in as well but its all the same. what will i do? how can i switch back to the old tool bar again? please help. thanks.
Hi Joe,
Maybe we can have a new collapsable menu when the editor loads up with frequently used items.
And being able to add things to the menu underneath the main icons such as drag and drop widgets to make them easier to get.
Scott
Hi Amoureuse,
I've switched the toolbar back to the advanced for you. Please let me know if it is working again.
Also, can you tell me what browser, operating system and Flash player you have? That would be very helpful for us to investigate what you were experiencing. Thanks,
Joe
Has anyone else noticed that if you do an update, click the view site and save site the page refreshes back to the edit screen and then you have to click on view site again?
Hi Paul,
Can you submit this as a bug to support? We can't reproduce it so would like to know more about which browser/os/flashplayer you are using. Thanks,
Joe
I think that a great resource to look at for inspiration os called RocketDock. (www.rocketdock.com) I have this installed on all five of my computers and it is pretty slick. It is a toolbar that can be adjusted to the top, bottom, left or right of your screen. Then, they have the option that it will slide away out of view until you place your mouse on the side of the screen where the toolbar is located and it will slide back out. Maybe you could incorporate something like this in the new toolbar? I know I would love something like that. But check it out for yourself! It is a free download and it is www.rocketdock.com!
THANKS!!!!!!
Like many others, I think the new toolbar is great! It makes finding things a singe, and allows for the genious guys at Moonfruit to further develop the software. The only issue I have with it is the name Moonfruit appeariing in the top left corner of the screen. I am just starting freelance webdesign, and want to use Moonfruit as an option for clients; I don't however want the name to be seen. Any chance it can be anonymous like the older toolbars?
Hi designs2grow,
Thanks for the feedback. If you buy a reseller account from us, then the branding is removed from the editor. You can still create client logins as 'site admins' for these sites and they won't see any 'moonfruit's anywhere. I hope that helps,
Joe
Re: Report new tool bar bug or something ?
Description of report:
1) Home page I have menu hidden.
2) When I'm on the page master the menu shows up - I want to hide the menu because its in the way of designing my page layout.
How do i hide the menu while in page paster mode?
OXOX,
Byronious
Hi Joe,
In the page master mode I'm trying to do a body text hyper link - however in the page master mode the minimal text editing tool bar is available, not the full text exiting tool that includes adding a outgoing hyperlink/email link. Is this a bug? I cant create a simple hyperlinked text in page master mode?
Ok, I answered my question - I'm using a Graphic font, which can not be hyper linked via the
text tool bar. Stardard fonts can be hyper linked.
Joe, will this limitation every be changed?
OX,
Byronious
Hi Byronious,
It's unlikely that Graphic fonts will be linkable. But there is a work-around. Just drop a shape or image map over the word you want linked, make it transparent and then insert your link into the Link tab for the shape/image map.
It will certainly achieve the same thing.
Regards
Walt
OK - now I'm very confused. I have returned to editing my site after about 6 weeks to find these changes. Or rather one change. I do not have a toolbar - sticky or otherwise anywhere on my site, hence I can do no editing other than with the floating editing box. My site takes an eternity to load and I am beginning to rue the hours I have already spent composing my site. I can simply log in and feel frustrated. I am probably being stupid and would like a push in the right direction....
Rich
can you try and make the screen size viewing a little bit smaller on the screen when all toolbars are open cause its hard to see all of the website when designing it
Hi Joe - The main reason I have not moved over to the new toolbar so far is it being off-centre. As you know I work full time managing my clients sites so I just can't be flicking back and forth with 'view my site'. So even if the side toolbar is out, it would be good if the site still centres itself with the space thats left.
Cheers,
Paul
Hi Paul,
Thanks for the feedback. I'll pass it to the team. We have experimented with this, but it can be tricky, as keeping the site in the same place (centred) with the sidebar coming in and out will only be possible based on the side width and browser size. So for certain users it will always have to move. But I'll investigate further. Thanks,
Joe